Is the Olivet Discourse for the Church?

1. Yes because it is given in all three Gospels even the ones that have the most significant Gentile presentation. Mark is written to explain the essentials of the gospel to a particular Gentile audience. Mark explains terms that only a Jew would understand and Mark has the fullest understanding of the Olivet Discourse. Mark adds details that Matthew leaves out.

Luke was written to Theophilus, obviously a gentile, Jesus’ focus in Luke 21 is giving his disciples the sign that so that they would know when they are to flee the city at its destruction and general expectation until the end of the age. It was the Church that fled Jerusalem when the armies surrounded the city and were saved while the Jews stayed in the city and were Massacred. As AT Person Writes, “The fact is remarkable enough, that in such universal slaughter not one disciple should perish; but more remarkable that it was after the besieging army should surround the city that they were to have opportunity to withdraw. What a strange signal for flight, when the hosts were cutting off every escape! And yet this was Christ’s token to His faithful followers that desolation was nigh, imminent. They should yet have chance to flee; if done with haste; there would be opportunity, but it would be short. Hear again the Jewish annalist: "Cestius Gallus, after beginning siege, mysteriously withdrew, and without any reason in the world, and many embraced this opportunity to depart, a great multitude fled to the mountains." At this crisis, as we learn from church historians of the first century, all the followers of Christ took refuge in the mountains of Pella, beyond the Jordan, and there is no record of one single Christian perishing in the siege! As soon as the armies returned, the city was surrounded by a wall and all hope of flight was now cut off.” 

2. Yes, because Jesus did not give the Olivet Discourse to the Jew but to his disciples whom he has chosen to be the ones who would start the Church. In both Matthew and Mark we are told, Matthew 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" Mark adds, Mark 13: 3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John and Andrew asked him privately."  It was not to the Jewish people that the Olivet Discourse was given but only those who were the most inner circle of the disciples,  Peter, James, John, and Andrew. If Jesus intended this teaching for Israel why did He not give it in a public place? This to me argues that Jesus fully intended this teaching for his disciples and their followers. It was the disciples that were curious about how the second coming would occur. It was the disciple who wanted to know what they need to look for. It was to the disciples that Jesus gave this very important teaching about the signs of his second coming.

3. Yes, because the Apostle Paul quote and alludes to the Olivet Discourse in his teaching on the second coming in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:12. It is curious to me all of the similarities between the Olivet Discourse and 1 Thessalonians 4: Pre-Tribbers have held that Matthew 24 describe the second coming where as 1 Thess. 4 describes the secret rapture of the Church. Yet in verse 1 Thess 4:15 Paul writes, “According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.” Paul uses a phrase that could be “according to the word of the Lord” Paul is obviously referring to words of Christ, the Lord in the New Testament is a title for Jesus and almost always has reference to Jesus. Which words of Christ is Paul referring to then in 1 Thess 4:15? Is it words that we have or words that we don't have?  It would seem to me that Paul is referring to words that we have and the  very obvious teaching of Christ on the nature of the second coming and resurrection is in the Olivet Discourse.

There is much very obvious similarity in detail between the Olivet Discourse and the 1Thess 4:13-17 “the rapture” passage. They both mention clouds, they both mention angles they both mention, trumpets. Both have the idea of collection of God’s people although I would admit that there is a sight variance in detail. Matthew 24:31 say, “And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”
            It is interesting to me to not that in 2 Thess 2:1 Paul use the same expression as Matthew give us in the Olivet Discourse in give the same Thessalonians believers instruction about the second coming when he writes, “ Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come.” Matthew 24:29-30 says, 30  "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.   31  And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.  Why does Paul use the same words and the same word order that Matthew uses if Matthew and the Olivet discourse are not in view.

4. Yes, because another detail that agues for Olivet Discourse parallel is Paul’s use of the term “Day of the Lord”. Pre-Tribbers have applied this term to the whole tribulation period, where as the Old Testament always applies to the period of judgment that is preceded by sign in the sun and the moon and which Jesus say precedes His second coming, here are just a few Old testament references on this Topic:

Isaiah 13:4 Listen, a noise on the mountains, like that of a great multitude! Listen, an uproar among the kingdoms, like nations massing together! The LORD Almighty is mustering an army for war. 5 They come from faraway lands, from the ends of the heavens— the LORD and the weapons of his wrath— to destroy the whole country. 6 ¶ Wail, for the day of the LORD is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty. 7 Because of this, all hands will go limp, every man’s heart will melt. 8 Terror will seize them, pain and anguish will grip them; they will writhe like a woman in labor. They will look aghast at each other, their faces aflame.   9 See, the day of the LORD is coming—a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger— to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. 10 The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light. 11 I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless. 12 I will make man scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir. 13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the LORD Almighty, in the day of his burning anger.

Joe 1:15 Alas for that day! For the day of the LORD is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty....Joel 2:1 ¶ Blow the trumpet in Zion; sound the alarm on my holy hill. Let all who live in the land tremble, for the day of the LORD is coming. It is close at hand—2 a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was of old nor ever will be in ages to come...30 I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and billows of smoke. 31 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

Amos 5:18 Woe to you who long for the day of the LORD! Why do you long for the day of the LORD? That day will be darkness, not light.     19 It will be as though a man fled from a lion only to meet a bear, as though he entered his house and rested his hand on the wall only to have a snake bite him. 20 Will not the day of the LORD be darkness, not light— pitch-dark, without a ray of brightness?

The emphasis in all these passages which speak of the “Day of the Lord” is a time judgment which is preceded by signs in the sun and the moon and the stars. So what does Paul understand when he uses the Term “day of the Lord”? Paul as one of the most learned Jewish scholars certainly would have understood this clear teaching from the Old Testament that the time of Judgment would be preceded by signs in the sun and mood and stars. Jesus in the Olivet Discourse says that his second coming is preceded by this same sign that the Old Testament calls “The day of the Lord”, Matthew 24:29, 29 "Immediately after the distress of those days (Or Tribulation KJV) "’the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ 30 “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.“ Christ here is placing the sign of the day of the Lord as the sign that precedes his Second coming. Paul uses the same term (Day of the Lord) that refers to the event of Judgment that is initiated by visible second coming of Christ.

5. Yes, because Paul tells believers the same thing that Christ tells us in the Olivet Discourse must take place before the coming of Christ. Paul writes:

1 ¶ Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, (our is talking about Paul and the church believers) we ask you, brothers,

(Matt 24:30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.)

2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come.3 ¶ Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God. (5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? (Matthew 24:15 "So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel— let the reader understand—)

6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming (Greek is parousia same word used in the Olivet Discourse in the following verses. Visible not Secret destroys the Anti-Christ).

(Mt 24:3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming <parousia>, and of the end of the age?" Mt 24:27 "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming <parousia> of the Son of Man be. Mt 24:37 "For the coming <parousia> of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. Mt 24:39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming <parousia> of the Son of Man be.)

9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. (Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect— if that were possible.)

To me the evidence on the is unmistakable. Paul’s teach is identical in chronology and basic content, which means Paul has the frame work of Jesus’ teaching clearly in view. Paul use to teach the believers this same truth. If Paul and Christ are saying the same thing then it is clear that Paul viewed Christ’s teaching as being for the Church and not just for the Jewish people and some Pre-Tribbers have implied.

6. YES, Just like Jesus, Paul viewed the visible coming of Christ, and not some secret “Rapture” of the Church as being hope of the believers. Paul writes in 2 Thess 1: 4

“Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. 5 ¶ All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.”

Paul here envisions the hope of the Suffering Thessalonians and of course all suffering believers as being the visible and glorious appearing of Christ. It is amazing to me that Paul uses the same Greek word for tribulation (Thilipsis) twice in these verse 4 NIV Trials, vs.. NIV Trouble. Paul says that their enemies will be paid back not During the Tribulation but when Christ is revealed in fire. This of course is the same teaching as Tit 2:13 “ looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,” In both of these verse the hope of all believers is not the Rapture but the glorious visible return of Christ to earth. Christ of course in his Olivet Discourse make the same point about the visibility of his return. Where he give two illustrations and then finally describes his second coming,

23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect— if that were possible. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time. 26 "So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather. 29 "Immediately after the distress of those days "’the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ 30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.

The first of these Illustration is like lighting flashing across the sky, is visible so will his coming be. When you see vultures circling overhead you know there is a carcass again the emphasis is upon the visibility of his coming. Since Paul uses visibility language as does Christ it is clear to me that he has the same event in mind which will be simultaneous with the gathering of the elect or Rapture.

7. Yes, Because Paul’s illustration of Watchfulness is the same as Christ’s in the Olivet Discourse therefore Paul must be interpreted in light of what Jesus has taught.    Paul Writes, 1 thess 5:1 ¶ Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, (Matt 24:36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father)2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly(Mt 24:38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; Mt 24:39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man., as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.) 4 But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. (Mt 24:43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.) 5 You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6 ¶ So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be alert and self-controlled. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8 But since we belong to the day, let us be self-controlled, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. To Me this is unmistakable, the teaching is exactly the same. So How than do we interpret Paul when his teaching seem to be further application of what Jesus taught his disciples. New Teaching? No Paul is merely expanding and applying to the church what Jesus has already said and is viewing the Olivet Discourse as authoritative. So we must conclude that Yes the Olivet Discourse is for the Chruch and therefore the “Rapture or Gathering of the Elect Church is simultaneous with the second coming and therefore Post-Tib.

Evidence from Church History.

Irenaeus: (AD. 120-202)

"Moreover, another danger, by no means trifling, shall overtake those who falsely presume that they know the name of Antichrist. For if these men assume one [number], when this [Antichrist] shall come having another, they will be easily led away by him, as supposing him not to be the expected one, who must be guarded against. These men, therefore, ought to learn [what really is the state of the case], and go back to the true number of the name, that they be not reckoned among false prophets. But, knowing the sure number declared by Scripture, that is, six hundred sixty and six, let them await, in the first place, the division of the kingdom into ten; then, in the next place, when these kings are reigning, and beginning to set their affairs in order, and advance their kingdom, [let them learn] to acknowledge that he who shall come claiming the kingdom for himself, and shall terrify those men of whom we have been speaking, having a name containing the aforesaid number, is truly the abomination of desolation. ... It is therefore more certain, and less hazardous, to await the fulfillment of the prophecy, than to be making surmises, and casting about for any names that may present themselves, inasmuch as many names can be found possessing the number mentioned; and the same question will, after all, remain unsolved. ... But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: ... But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." [Irenaeus: Against Heresies, Book V, XXX]

Ireanaeus who was a disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of the Apostle John who wrote the book of revelation expected the coming of AntiChrist and warned the church about his coming.

Justin Martyr: (AD. 110-165)

"Two advents of Christ have been announced: the one, in which He is set forth as suffering, inglorious, dishonored, and crucified; but the other, in which He shall come from heaven with glory, when the man of apostasy, who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christians, ... Now it is evident that no one can terrify or subdue us who have believed in Jesus over all the world. For it is plain that, though beheaded, and crucified, and thrown to wild beasts, and chains, and fire, and all other kinds of torture, we do not give up our confession; but the more such things happen, the more do others and in larger numbers become faithful, and worshippers of God through the name of Jesus." [Dialog with Trypho, CX]

The Didache 160 AD

Chapter 16. Watchfulness; the Coming of the Lord. Watch for your life's sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord will come. But come together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if you are not made perfect in the last time. For in the last days false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate; for when lawlessness increases, they shall hate and persecute and betray one another, and then shall appear the world-deceiver as Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet come to pass since the beginning. Then shall the creation of men come into the fire of trial, and many shall be made to stumble and shall perish; but those who endure in their faith shall be saved from under the curse itself. And then shall appear the signs of the truth: first, the sign of an outspreading in heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet. And third, the resurrection of the dead -- yet not of all, but as it is said: "The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him." Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven.

Nothing in any of these about a Pre-Trib Rapture of the Church only warnings about the coming of Anti-Christ who will be destroyed at the Second Coming. These to Me give priority of the Olivet Discourse because their teaching is Identical.